September14th, 1969

Originally offered: September 14th, 1969 | Modified February 3rd, 2012 by korin

Suzuki-roshi and Richard Baker at Tassajara

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

SHARP IRON, PURE SILK

Sunday, September 14, 1969

Tassajara

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-09-14 (missing the last few paragraphs)

Sunday school—a Sunday-school girl saw me in sitting, and she said:  “I can do it.”  And she crossed her legs like this [gesturing], and then said, “And what?  [Laughing, laughter.]  And what?”  She sit like this and said, “And what?”  I was very much interested in her question because many of you have same question [laughs, laughter].  You come every day to Zen Center and practice Zen.  And you ask me, “And what?  [Laughs.]  And what?”

 

I want to explain this point a little bit.  I cannot—I don’t think I can explain it fully because it is not something to be—to ask or to be—to answer.  You should know by yourself.  We—why we sit in some formal position is through your body you should experience something, you know, by doing—by formal sitting—something you yourself experience not by mind—by teaching, but by physical practice.

 

But to be able to sit in some form and to attain some state of mind is not perfect study.  After you have full experience of mind and body, you should be able to express it in some other way, too.  That happens quite naturally.  You don’t stick to some formal position anymore, but you can express same feeling—same state of mind, or you can convey your mind to others by some way.  And even though you do not sit in some certain form—for an instance, in chair, or in standing position, or in working, or in speaking, you can—you will have same state of mind—state of mind [in] which you do not stick to anything.  This is what you will study through our practice.  That is the—what you will, you know—that is the purpose of practice.

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September 1st, 1969

Originally offered: September 1st, 1969 | Modified January 26th, 2012 by korin

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

SUMMER SESSHIN SHŌSAN CEREMONY

Tassajara

September 1969

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-09-00 E

 

[Beginning of ceremony was not recorded.]

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  … it will be the foundation of the everyday activity.  That is real [1 word].

 

Student A:  Thank you very much.

 

Student B:  Dōchō-rōshi, if our karmic thoughts interfere with our breath counting, just as do the flies in the zendō, should we not try to rid ourselves of them, even though it is a nice aid our practice?

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Excuse me [2-3 words]—

 

Student B:  If our karmic thoughts interfere with our breath-counting—

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.

 

Student B:  —just as do the flies in the zendō—

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.

 

Student B:  —should we not try to get rid of them, even though it is an aid to our practice?

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.  Karma is actually something really exist—something you created, and something you feel [1-2 words] or something which you—or which drive you in some certain direction.  That is karma.  But that karma is not like flies.  It is not substantial being.  It is just our habit.  So it is—there is no need to try to get rid of it.  To have right understanding of it through right practice is to get rid of it.  So when you practice zazen, you should not have any idea of karma.

 

Student B:  Thank you very much.

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September 1st, 1969

Originally offered: September 1st, 1969 | Modified January 17th, 2012 by korin

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

SUMMER SESSHIN:  SIXTH NIGHT LECTURE

Tassajara

September 1969

 Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-09-00 D

 

We discussed about the question and answer between the Seventeenth Patriarch and Eighteenth Patriarch.[1]

 

“Whether bell is ringing or wind is ringing?” the teacher said.

 

Disciple said:  “Not wind nor bell ringing, but our mind is ringing.”

 

And the teacher said:  “What kind of mind is it?”

 

And the disciple said:  “The mind of complete calmness.”

 

And usually when we hear someone say:  “No bell—or not bell or wind, but mind is ringing”—then, most people say:  “Oh, that is very good answer.”  But that is not a complete answer.  “Mind is ringing” means—if we don’t hear the bell, you know, we—we can—we cannot—there is no sound.  Because we—our mind hear it and our mind recognize the sound, the sound exist.  That is true, but that is not perfect answer [laughs].  Why, you know?

 

The sound of the bell, you know, is the activity of whole universe, and blow of the—blowing window—wind is also activity of whole universe which, you know, covers everything.  That we hear our activity of mind is also the activity of whole universe, not only my activity but also activity of whole universe.  So one activity include everything.  In this case, that mind is called “big mind” or “capital mind.”  My mind, you know is—our mind is our small mind.  But mind which include everything is capital mind.  Although the character is same, but we understand this character in two ways:  small mind and big mind.

 

So the [teacher asked], “What kind of mind is it?”  Small mind or big mind, you know.  Although the teacher didn’t say so, but he meant—what he meant:  “What kind of mind is it?  Is it the mind which hear something, which recognize something?”  And disciple said:  “No.  That mind is big mind, which is in complete calmness.”  That was his answer.

 

Now this is, you know, how we practice zazen.  How our mind work or exist is—how our—each one’s own mind exist is so-called-it in “inter-relationship.”  You know, my mind is supported by all of you, you know, and each one’s mind is supported by all of mind.  So, you know, and at the same time, each one’s mind is supporting, you know, supporting everyone’s mind.

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September 1st, 1969

Originally offered: September 1st, 1969 | Modified January 10th, 2012 by korin

SUMMER SESSHIN

THIRD NIGHT LECTURE

Tassajara

September 1969

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-09-00 C

 

We are talking about our practice.  What is the practice, and what is enlightenment, and how we practice.  Someone who is practicing is a man in reality.  And the practice we practice is something in reality.  And place we practice—some place in reality.  And the time you practice is also time in reality.  So everything take place in realm of reality.  That is true practice.  So Dōgen-zenji says:  “If our practice does not include everything, it is not our practice.”  And not only practice, but also place you practice, and person who practice, and time to practice—include everything.  That is perfect practice.

 

So counting-breathing practice is not just to count, you know.  With all your—with all of your body and mind, you should count the—count your breathing.  If you do so, the counting-breathing practice covers everything.  So counting-breathing exercise include everything.  That is how we count our breathing in our practice:  not to count our exhaling mechanically, you know—one, two, three [laughs].  That is not our way.  When we count it with all of your effort, physical and mental, that is counting-breathing practice.

 

Some of you find it difficult—find some difficulty in counting-breathing practice.  Difficulties you may have is you tend to count your breathing just mechanically.  So naturally, you know, you count, you know—if you, you know, count something: one, two, three, four, five, you know, and again and again you count, and your count—counting will be faster and faster because it is easy.  One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten [laughs].  Just you, you know, recite Prajñāpāramitā-sūtraKAN-JI-ZAI-BO-SATSU-GYO-JIN-HAN-NYA-HA-RA—[starts slowly, then speeds up as he goes along] [laughs, laughter].  That is not our practice, you know, just to know how many times you count your breathing and how long you keep counting without mistake [laughs].  That is not our practice.  With your whole mind and body you should count.  How you do it is—you know, it is—how you do it is also how you take deep perfect breathing.  So by counting you will help, you know, good breathing, good, smooth, deep breathing.  So instead of saying some other thing like mu, you know, you count:  “one, two.”

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September 1st, 1969

Originally offered: September 1st, 1969 | Modified January 5th, 2012 by korin

Suzuki-roshi at Rinsoin (1940s)

SUMMER SESSHIN

SECOND NIGHT LECTURE

September 1969

Tassajara

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-09-00 B

 

We have been talking about—discuss—discussing about reality, actually, and how we practice our way in our zazen and in our everyday life.  And Dōgen-zenji talked about the reality in—by using the Japanese or Chinese word, inmo.[1]   Inmo means—inmo has two meaning.  It is—it means like this, you know [probably gestures]—and also it means question:  “What is that?”  Or it is, you know, “it,” you know.  “It” means—sometime it is question mark, and sometime “it” means—pointing at something, we say, “it.”

 

In English, you know, you say, “It is hot.”  That “it” is the same words—same meaning when you say, “It is nine o’clock,” or “It is half-passed eight.”  You know, it—you use ["it" for] only time or weather, you know.  Time or weather is “it.”  But not only time or weather.  Everything should be “it”—can be “it.”  We are also “it,” you know, but we don’t say “it.”  Instead of “it” we say “he” or “she,” or “me” or “I.”  But actually it means “it.”  So everything is—if everything is “it,” you know, it is—at the same time, question mark, you know.  When I say “it,” you know, you don’t know [laughs] exactly what I mean, so you may say, “What is it?” [laughs] you may ask.

 

“It” is not—it does not mean some definite, special thing, as it does not mean when we talk about time, it is not—it does not mean some special time, or meal time, or lecture time.  We don’t know.  So “it” is—it means also ques- [partial word]—it may be question mark for everyone.  If I say “it,” you know, you may say, “What time is it?” you may say.

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September 1st, 1969

Originally offered: September 1st, 1969 | Modified December 29th, 2011 by korin

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

SUMMER SESSHIN:  FIRST NIGHT LECTURE

“I Don’t Know Zazen”

September 1969

Tassajara

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-09-00 A

 

In our practice, the most important thing [is] to—to know—to know.  “To know” is that we have buddha-nature.  Our practice—real practice happens when realization of buddha-nature take place.  Intellectually we know that we have buddha-nature, and that is what was taught by Buddha.

 

But to know buddha-nature—when you know that we have buddha-nature, at the same time you will know that even though we have buddha-nature, you know, it is rather difficult to accept it.  At the same time, we have various evil nature.  And buddha-nature is something beyond good and bad, but our everyday life is going [on] in realm of good and bad.  So there is—there is two—twofold of duality.  One is duality of good and bad, and the other is duality of good and bad—realm of good and bad, and realm of the world where there is no good and no bad.

 

And our everyday life is going [on] in realm of good and bad—the realm of duality.  And buddha-nature or our absolute nature is found in the realm of absolute where there is no good and bad.  Our practice is to go beyond the realm of good and bad and to realize the one absolute world—to enter the one absolute world is our practice.  If I say in this way it is rather—it may rather difficult to understand.

 

Hashimoto-rōshi,[1]  the famous Zen master who passed away last year or 1967, I think, explained this point.  “It is”—I think I told you once—”It is like a—to—to prepare a food,” you know.  We prepare food—various food—you separate:  rice is here, and pickles are here, and soup is in middle bowl.  We don’t cook like a gruel all the time [laughs]—soup and rice and everything in one bowl.  Even though, you know, to cook—to prepare food separately, you know, in each bowl is the—our usual world—world of seeming.  And—but when you eat it, you know, in your tummy, you know, soup and rice and pickles and everything—goma-shio[2]—and everything [gets all] [laughs] mixed up and you don’t know what is—which is goma-shio or rice.  That is the world of absolute [laughter].  As long as goma-shio is goma-shio, and separately prepared on the plate, it doesn’t work—like your intellectual understanding of Buddhism.  It doesn’t work.  [Laughs, laughter.]  That is book knowledge.

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August 28th, 1969

Originally offered: August 28th, 1969 | Modified December 15th, 2011 by korin

Kobun Chino-roshi on the left, Suzuki-roshi on the right, I don't know who is in the middle

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Thursday, August 28, 1969

Tassajara

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-08-28

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  I want you to ask me a question.  [Laughs.]  I have nothing in my mind to say.  Something—some question about our practice, maybe, or zazen practice, or our everyday practice.  Hai.

 

Student A:  I have two days—I am leaving Tassajara to live in the city after being here for one year.  I wonder what you might have specifically to say to me about that right now.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Right now [laughs].  What time did you actually come back?

 

Student A:  Come to—back?

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Yeah.  What time today?

 

Student A:  Today?  Today, it was about 5:15.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  5:15.  [Laughs, laughter.]  The feeling—I think when you—you are at Tassajara, you know, you don’t find anything special [laughs].  But if you come back, you know, from city you will have—you will find Tassajara something quite different from city.  I had same feeling when I came back to Eihei-ji Monastery after staying outside of the monastery for maybe one or two days.  When you are here, you know, you don’t feel anything special.  But, you know, even [if] you feel something special when you come back to Tassajara, if you compare, I think proper understanding should be like this:  Tassajara should be like a water, you know.  That you feel something special about it [is] to see the wave on the water.  So even though you feel you have some special feeling about Tassajara, but that is not true Tassajara.  It is—you feel very good, but Tassajara should be greater than that.  The wave is, you know—wave you see is, according to Dōgen-zenji, you know, the wave is a part of—a part of—part of water, or—or one—many ways of observing one of the feature of water.

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August 25th, 1969

Originally offered: August 25th, 1969 | Modified December 5th, 2011 by korin

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

Monday Evening, August 25, 1969

Tassajara

 Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-08-25

 

Tonight, maybe, we will have question and answer.  As usual, will you give me some questions?  No questions?

 

Student A:  Rōshi?

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Hai.

 

Student A:  Could you explain how if improvement is one of the causes of suffering, how does our practice relate to it?  Zazen seems to me to be one of things that is changing my life to the better.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.  “Changing better,” you know, there—there is problem, you know.  Do you mean you have some problem or suffering, and by practice you think you can stop or you can—you will be more free from suffering, or what do you mean?

 

Student A:  Well, for instance, in—in the practice of ōryōki

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.

 

Student A:  —seems to avoid a lot of bodily [1 word] suffering.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.  Yeah.

 

Student A:  That seems to be why we practice ōryōki.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Mm-hmm.  Practice—actually, the purpose of practice is to be completely, you know, devote ourselves to the something which you do.  You know, that is the main point of practice.  When you don’t or when you do it carelessly, then your mind is not there.  So your mind—when your mind is not there, then you are separated by your, if I say, if I use big word, by your surrounding.  And you are here and you are separated by your place [where] you live.  If—when you are separated by objective world and there is suffering, you know, but when you are completely devote yourself to what you do there is no separation, and [that] which exist there is not subjective world or objective world for you.  Ōryōki, just ōryōki exist, you know, and that ōryōki covers everything—not only you but also everything will be covered by it or included by it.  When this oneness appears there is no suffering.  Do you understand?  Suffering is—this is suffering [writing or drawing on blackboard].  When there is only one stick there is no suffering.  Do you understand?  When—when this kind of oneness take place there is no suffering.  That is—

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August 23rd, 1969

Originally offered: August 23rd, 1969 | Modified November 21st, 2011 by korin

Suzuki-roshi and Richard Baker-roshi in the mountains above Tassajara

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

Saturday, August 23, 1969

Tassajara

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-08-23

 

Let’s continue to study about twelve links of causation.  Causation of—one understanding may be—more classical understanding is—explanation of twelve links of causation is causation of life.  And the other is causation of suffering of our life.  You know, how—why do we suffer?  Very different.

 

I said classical one—according—classical one, classical explanation, but actually in Āgama[1]  or more old scriptures, twelve links is not twelve, as I said before.[2]   And it does not refer to the actual life of ourselves:  like before we come to this world, and after we come this—to this world, and after our birth.  Three worlds:  past, present, and future.  And two-fold of—three world—two-fold—twelve causation of life and death.  This is so-called-it “older” type of explanation of it.  But in old, old scripture this kind of understanding is not there.  But after Buddhist divided in many schools, this kind of so-called-it “classical” explanation of causation of life and death in past, present, future, twelve links of causation appeared.  This is not so old one.  The old one is rather explanation of why we suffer.  And they—we count the reason why we suffer.  Or we find twelve elements in our suffering.  So this is very different explanation, and this is more nearer to the teaching of Buddha himself.

 

The other day Peter asked—raised this question.  And did you—do you have Life of Buddha, you know, written by some Frenchman—I forgot his name?[3]   Do you have it?  Someone else asked that same question so she must have read that book.  I don’t know what kind of explanation he gives to it, for the twelve causation of life and death.  Do you know?  Have you read it?

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August 21st, 1969

Originally offered: August 21st, 1969 | Modified November 18th, 2011 by korin

Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi

Thursday, August 21, 1969

Tassajara

Listen to this talk: Suzuki-roshi 69-08-21

Suzuki-rōshi:  If you want, please come here.

 

I am sorry I haven’t prepare anything for lecture—for this lecture.  So I should be very happy if you have some question and—so that I can say something about it.  Do you have some questions?  Hai.

 

Student A:  Rōshi, you speak about the relationship of conditioned origination and free will and our everyday life?  Is it possible to say anything about that?  [Laughter.]

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Condition of?

 

Student A:  The relationship of conditioned origination or the—

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Origination?

 

Student A:  —the chain of causation and free will—free will to determine our own actions in our daily life.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Free will?  I don’t—you know—what will—conditioned origination, what is it, do you think?

 

Student A:  The twelve-fold chain of causation?

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Hmm?

 

Student A:  The twelve-fold-chain of causation—

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Oh, oh I see.

 

Student A:  —and free will—the relationship of those two things.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  That’s deep.  [Laughs, laughter.]  Do you know twelve links of causation?  Twelve links of causation.  The—our life originated from—started from ignorance.  We came out of ignorance.

 

Excuse me.  I have something in my mouth still [laughs, laughter].

 

Do you know something about it?

 

Student A:  No.

 

Suzuki-rōshi:  Why we came, you know, this world is because of ignorance.  Ignorance is the origin of—not “species,” but origin of being, maybe.  Yeah.  Why we say so is because we think we exist here with some self-nature.  So—but actually there is nothing to be called as self-nature.  So that we think, “I am here with some self-nature” is actually not right.  Why we have this kind of imperfect understanding of being—not only our self but also all being.  Mis-[partial word]—not “misunderstanding,” but a kind of delusion.  To see something which does not really exist is delusion.

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